109 - The Resilience Plan: Strategies to Prevent Burnout and Thrive with Dr. Marie-Hélène Pelletier

[00:00:01] Writing a book can be the foundation for sharing your important message, but it won't work unless you are consistently marketing. This podcast is for those who have written a book to share their message with the world. I love talking all things Authorpreneur and having guests join me to share their brilliance with you.

[00:00:25] Hello Authorpreneurs, it's Suzanne Tregenza Moore. I am so excited to bring this episode to you. It is with a fabulous woman who is both known as Marie-Hélène and M.H. for those of us who may not be able to pronounce Marie-Hélène. So we're just going to go for it.

[00:00:49] Throughout her career in business management and psychology, Dr. Pelletier has spearheaded the dialogue on crucial issues of leadership resilience and work performance. Drawing on her extensive background in corporate insurance, governance, and public sectors, she brings an international perspective and unique expertise on leadership.

[00:01:16] She is a practicing leadership psychologist and executive coach with over 20 years of experience and holds a PhD and MBA from the University of British Columbia.

[00:01:29] Marie-Hélène is a member of the Global Clinical Practice Network of the World Health Organization and past director on the boards of the Canadian Psychological Association and the International Association of Applied Psychology. She has presented and authored and co-authored a number of industry and academic publications and has won numerous academic and industry awards.

[00:01:59] In 2024, Dr. Pelletier published her award-winning book, The Resilience Plan, a strategic approach to optimizing your work performance and mental health. And Dr. Pelletier, I am delighted to have you here today to talk to our audience. Suzanne, it is a pleasure to be here. And call me a mage. A mage. There we go. Tell me a mage.

[00:02:26] Tell me a little bit about your experience and what led up to you deciding that it was time to write the resilience plan. So a lot of my work was in corporate for a number of years and at some point started my own business about six years ago. And in that business, I do mainly three things. Small practice as a psychologist, decent practice size as an executive coach. And most of what I do is speaking.

[00:02:56] So keynotes and that kind of thing. And what I wanted is to grow mostly that third pillar, which I've now done. And that's where it's at. So early, I was thinking having a book would be fantastic in terms of additional ways to share the message. And I was advised early, don't one thing at a time. If you're going to grow this part of the business, your book is going to need so much of your attention that it will be hard to do both at the same time. Interesting.

[00:03:24] And yeah, looking back, thank God I did that because seeing now how much time was required for each of these two very important pieces, it absolutely made sense. And so therefore, for me, it's when the speaking was organized in more ways and launched in many ways that then the timing just felt right. And of course, it goes on over a period of time.

[00:03:51] But that's when it started to be the right time for me. That is fascinating. I have to say, I really want to talk about the meat of your book, but I feel like so many people are pushed today into, well, you've got to write your book. You've got to write your book right away. You've got to write your book. And that is the exact opposite of your experience. And I love the fact that you're like, no, that was good.

[00:04:15] It was good that somebody slowed me down and said, hold your roll and don't jump in too fast to writing the book. What do you think is the biggest benefit to you waiting to write the book? Well, there were two waiting periods, actually, now that you're helping me think through this. That was this one. Initially, you're starting to launch this pillar of your business in a much bigger way.

[00:04:45] I had done tons of speaking before, but as speakers know, doing speaking for an organization is a very different sport than doing speaking on your own as your own business. Not the same sport. No, right. True. Yes. It's a very different thing. And so it made sense for me because the more I learned what was required to grow this business here, the more I saw that I didn't have time for anything else. Little did I know the amount of time it actually takes to write a book.

[00:05:14] If I knew this then, I would myself have said, there is no way I'm touching this right now. But thankfully, because yeah, people around other people were all saying, the sooner you get the book, the better. Get a book. You don't have a book. You should have a book. Oh, where's your book? I was hearing this a lot. Yes. But then I had my few advisors and they were all clear. Not right now. Stay focused. Stay focused. And that's, I think, an important piece of this. It was not about delay for the sake of it.

[00:05:44] It was focus. Yes. You're wanting this now. Stay there. And then bring the other piece. So that was one moment where I focused on something else first. And then when I got to, okay, now I'm going to write the book. I looked for which resources I wanted around me to do this. I wanted to work with a developmental editor, different things like this.

[00:06:08] And once I found who I wanted to work with, I looked at, okay, so when in the next year that could happen? And the more I asked questions about, and then I got into details literally, like, but how many words is actually a book? How many words a minute do we write? How many words an hour? You know, like how many hours am I going to need for this? All these things then led me to realize fall is not going to be a good idea for me to start this.

[00:06:36] This is the busiest season in my speaking work. And not only that, but I'm going to need to pause other parts of my work to create this space for this. So that was another moment where I said, not right this second, it's coming, but not right this second, create this space and then do it. So that was another sort of finding the right moment to focus on it. Yeah.

[00:07:02] I absolutely love that you had people that were saying, don't rush it. Because that's so different than what so many people hear. And I love the fact that their voices were loud enough that even with the people telling you to rush it, you said, you know what? I know I'm going to figure this out in the right way. So let's pivot to the book.

[00:07:26] Tell me what the resilience plan is and how it serves both the people who read it and the people who utilize it. Yes. Right. Hopefully it's the same. Well, I mean, like we all know we've read a few books and maybe not done everything they told us to. Yeah. I know. That's true. Or sometimes not in the first round. And then I know that there are some books where I didn't do the first round, kept keep the book. It's there. And then, again, the right time, it feels.

[00:07:54] You know, you get back into it and now you get different things from it in that moment. Absolutely. Absolutely. So what I'm doing in the book is bringing what we know from psychology research will make a difference, a significant difference in your resilience. And we'll define that in a second. And I'm pairing this. So what do we know makes an actual difference in the sea of all the things we hear? Right. What is solid? Established.

[00:08:23] And I'm bringing the principles that we use in business from strategy specifically. The kinds of things you do when you're looking to launch a new product or a new service, that kind of thing, using these tools, some of these tools here so that you create a plan, a strategic plan. So it's not just about knowing what we should do to do resilience. That's a list of things that we don't have time to get to and we just don't do.

[00:08:49] But if we pair it, what we know from strategy, so we actually create a strategic plan, which means it will be personalized for each of us based on our context right now. So it's going to be real as opposed to ideal can't happen. Then we've got much more of a chance of actually implementing and making a difference. So that's the idea. Bring psychology and strategy together so that we actually can build our resilience even more. I love it.

[00:09:16] So in there, you said, well, we bring resilience. We have to talk about what that is. Tell me what your definition of resilience is. Yes. And it's a good question because there are actually many definitions. Listen, we all think of different words and we have kind of our general understanding of them. But to really understand that most of us don't pick out the dictionary. So what is your definition of resilience and how should we be thinking about it?

[00:09:46] Yes. So our ability to go through adversity, so demands here, and come out even stronger. So there's a growth element to this. There's also a recognition that, yeah, we'll go through adversity. And adversity here means any kinds of demands. Often we recognize the acute ones because it's obvious, but it's also the chronic demands. The things that are there have always been there, but they're still adding up, right? Mm-hmm.

[00:10:16] So having clarity on that helps. And then there's an element of growth. Wow. So could you give an example? I love what you just said about that because we have the acute ones and the chronic ones.

[00:10:31] But can you just give an example of someone who is in a situation where they might be dealing with acute and chronic adversity that, I guess, managing it would be considered resilience? Yeah.

[00:10:49] So when we're resilient, we're able to meet these challenges and learn something, continue our own growth as individuals. In order to be able to learn something, we need to have a bit of energy. So if we're depleted and something tough happens, we'll just struggle through, try to keep our head outside of the water and make it. But there's unlikely any growth happening here.

[00:11:19] We're just surviving, right? So therefore, so let's say in our work, I'll just invent for right now. But let's say you are planning to write a book, a second book, maybe your first book, doesn't matter. And you have already launched your own business and all. Okay. You also have two teenage children. And there is AI that's coming into the mix here.

[00:11:46] We're not sure the impact it's going to have on that particular part of your business. But artificial intelligence may do something that may have an impact on it in the near future. So now you've got acute demands from teenagers. You've got general chronic demands from the demands of the business. The sort of nebulous but chronic AI coming, happening here. We know we've got a lot going on, both in the personal and the professional side.

[00:12:16] And so if we proactively understand even more, see more clearly that all these demands are there. And sometimes there's other things, I'm just giving some examples, but for most of us, there are like 20 things going on, right? Yes. And more. So, but part of what happens is, especially for entrepreneurs, in order to launch a business and move things forward,

[00:12:44] we have to not pay attention to all the demands sometimes because otherwise we would never do anything. Absolutely. I'd like curl up in my bed, put my covers over me and never get out. There are advantages, but there are times where it's also an advantage to keep that sort of, yes, I can push forward. I can minimize problems and just keep going. Yes.

[00:13:11] But it's also helpful to actually have a realistic eye on all the things that are going on. And if we do, and we see that there's quite a bit, then the more we can proactively invest in our resilience, like taking care of ourselves. Do I protect time with friends? If I have a social event, do I cancel because I'm too busy or do I go? Because sometimes it's important for business, but sometimes it's also good for us, right? Yes. We connect with people.

[00:13:40] Do I pay attention to how well I'm eating? Am I spending time in nature? Am I protecting my boundaries so that I can actually work every awake hour of the day? These are some examples, but the more we pay attention to these, the more we raise our resilience because we're protecting our energy in effect. Yes. To have the demands come in, it'll be easier to go through, bring our best to all this and learn. Yes.

[00:14:07] So two things that you've said that really sparked something in me. The first was your definition of resilience ended with coming out of the situation and being in a better place than when you went into it. And for me, that was really interesting because I think I've always thought of resilience as just sort of being able to maintain the status quo.

[00:14:36] Kind of, I'm resilient because I can keep going at least to the level that I have gone before, but not necessarily improved upon it. Yes. Yes. Do you find, am I unique in that from the people you've spoken to or is that something you typically find? Yeah, yeah. No, we hear, we hear, that's that sentence. We hear sometimes the bouncing back type. Like it was number one, there is an element to this.

[00:15:06] It's like, really, can you actually do that? But the piece is, no, no, we're not looking at this. And also that definition of bouncing back also suggests that we're going to go through this, these demands and all. And that our approach will just be to put our head down and keep going. Like persistence, no matter what. Grit, almost like, you know, that kind of thing. And that's not what resilience is.

[00:15:32] So our ability to go through adversity, come out even stronger, does not mean that 100% of the time we will just put our head down and keep going. Sometimes we're going to say, you know what? Hold on. I actually need to not do this. I'm going to quit this thing. I'm not doing this. That's a choice.

[00:15:56] Because now that I've looked at my actual context, all my other demands, my values, it may be that initially I said, yeah, I'm going to do this, you know, quickly or just because I tend to say yes, whatever. And now, especially if you go through the bit of that reflection to think about your resilience, maybe you're going to say, no, I'm not going to do this. Right? So there are moments where, no, we're not going to do everything. We're not going to do everything at all costs.

[00:16:26] And we're not coming back to the same place. There is a learning agility in this. And that's part of what we need as entrepreneurs, right? We are learning. If we were always just going back to the same thing, probably not the direction. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. So same idea. We're nourishing that learning, yes, for our business, but also for ourselves as individuals. Yeah. Amazing.

[00:16:53] The other thing that really struck me in what you said was the phrase protecting our energy. I had never heard that before. And at a certain point, I was working with a business coach who worked closely with her husband. And she was kind of the front of the business and he did all the back stuff, all the technical. And I remember her saying something about her husband is one of the people that protects her energy.

[00:17:24] And at the time, I had never heard that. I didn't know what she meant. And it really sounded very foreign to me. And now, this was probably 10 years ago at this point. And now I look at people and I look at the people in my life and the ones that I go to for energy. And that I know that when I'm with them, my energy is protected or increasing.

[00:17:54] Or can you talk a little bit about if somebody's never heard of that, what that would mean and what they should be looking for in terms of protecting or increasing their energy as opposed to feeling it is depleted? Right? This is a great question. Because for many people, there is a time early in our adult life, let's say.

[00:18:19] Because we often hear about child development, adolescent development, and then adult kind of thing. But there is adult development also. We develop from our 20s, 30s, each of the decades, different things, different demands, different ways where we are physically, psychologically, different people around us. Things change.

[00:18:42] So when we are in, say, earlier, first decade or so, we're younger, we have less demands. We may have lots of demands, but we still probably will have less demands for most people than, say, a couple of decades later. So in this moment, it's potentially, not always, and it depends, there are other variables. But for many people, generally, you can say yes to more things and still end the day with a fair bit of energy, if nothing else.

[00:19:11] Because we're younger. The machine is younger. It's more. It spans less. And so energy is retained a bit more. But then a couple of decades later, or just as we keep going, and sometimes even in that decade, if the amount of demands are changing, part of what will happen is you could deplete that energy.

[00:19:35] And so if we continue here a couple of decades later to operate with the same mindset, here it may lead to somewhere different. So we cannot just ignore it, like perhaps we did here because it sort of all worked out. Right. So when you say here, in our 20s, late 20s, like we can go out, we can party till 3 in the morning and somehow get up and go to work. I mean, I'm just giving an example of somebody else's life, not my own, obviously.

[00:20:04] A friend you know. A friend I know. Yeah. But in my 50s now, I would never even, it wouldn't even like hit the radar of something that I could even pretend to think about. I could do. And if for some reason you had to, it would take us a few, same pair, it would take us longer to recover. So that's the piece. So we're here. We have, but it's also exciting.

[00:20:32] We now have puzzles to figure out, opportunities that we've taken, yeah, those decades to get to. So there are many exciting things here and we will be able to enjoy them and bring our best to these fabulous challenges if we also protect our energy. So it could mean things like, sometimes it's really shifting your mindset.

[00:20:57] Can I aim at finishing my day with more energy than I started it with? Right? So often we think, okay, I have whatever I have of energy. I'll just use them up, go to bed at night at zero, replenish during the night and start over the following day. Maybe instead of giving a hundred percent to everything you're doing, maybe you can give less. Some things may only need 20%.

[00:21:26] Maintaining the kitchen may not need 100% attention, but maybe certain things can be good, perfectly fine at 80%. Some things may need 100%, but not everything. So that you can actually maintain your energy because in this context of even more demands, you also have more unexpected ones. You also have probably larger ones that we don't know.

[00:21:51] So the more you've built that buffer and you're going to build buffer if you don't go to bed fully depleted. Right. Fascinating. Deliberately. Deliberately. Deliberately. I have to say, I could probably talk about that for like two hours if we kept going because I just find the choices we make in life and our daily stressors and so fascinating. But I try to keep the podcast to a reasonable length.

[00:22:19] So what I'm going to do now is ask you a few questions that I ask everyone who comes on to the show. Ready. I know that you have been part of other books. You wrote this book. Do you think you'll write another book that is just yours? At this point, I do not think that I will. Things can change. It's not, you know, a definite answer. But at this point, no, I do not.

[00:22:46] Because mostly of what I said earlier, in order to do this, I've had to push other things aside. I want these other things back. And so we'll see. It's so funny because I interview so many people and they often, oh, of course. It's so obvious they're going to write another book. Sometimes they've written 10, you know, whatever. And I'm actually glad that that was your answer. Not because your book, I'm sure that your book is phenomenal.

[00:23:13] I look forward to reading it and getting the most out of it. But it's like you waited to write what you really needed to write. So it's okay if you don't write another one because you waited. Whereas other people who got pushed into writing the book early, they have another book to write because they didn't get it all out the first time. I also know some authors who also waited and wrote the book they very much wanted to write.

[00:23:40] And then things continue and another book emerges. I've also seen that. It's interesting, but you're right. I think maybe more people say yes to this. But I think, you know what I often say, one PhD, one marathon, one child, one book. So I have done one of those also. I'm a one big challenge person. So in my case, I really stay there. Excellent.

[00:24:04] Next question I ask everyone is, as an entrepreneur, because I know you have your own business, what is one thing that you believe every entrepreneur needs to do or have in order to be successful? I'm going to say, I'm pausing because it obviously will be aligned with the book. But what can I say? I'm the same person.

[00:24:27] I'm going to say protecting time for yourself, meaning time for yourself where you're really checking in with yourself. So for some people, that's a hike. Some people, it is meditation or journaling or whatever, but you need a bit of that moment because otherwise you're always turned outside. Yes. Yes. Love that. Love that. And the last question is, what is your favorite book?

[00:24:57] I like so many books, but I will tell you. So it's going to be Mind Over Mood. It is a book that comes from the psychology side of things by Greenberger and Padesky. And I'm very honored that Christine Padesky, Dr. Padesky also is an endorser of my book. And yeah, it's amazing. But the book they wrote, it's now in second edition, over a million sold, all these things.

[00:25:23] It's a workbook that brings elements of cognitive behavior therapy in a way that everyone can use and that we can all use. Even if at this point we're not dealing with it necessarily, a psychological health issue, we can be proactive with it. So, but it's done. You don't have to read the whole book. You can just pick the sections you want. It's so practical and has been so impactful that I would say that's going to be my favorite. I love it.

[00:25:51] Thank you so much for sharing your book, sharing your insights with us. Is there anything you would love to leave our audience with? Yes. I would say stay curious. Curious about how you can think even more strategically about your resilience. Talk about it because it's you, it's people in your teams, it's people in your personal life. And then curious about the things you can do.

[00:26:20] Even if they're very small, stay curious. If you are curious, the same way you've probably been curious to find your entrepreneurial idea and improvements, that curiosity, bring it also to you for your own resilience. Love it. Love it. And I know that if people want to get a taste of your book, I believe they can go to your website and get download. Is it the first chapter? First chapter. Yes. And I've got other tools that are available there as well.

[00:26:50] So yes, they can come to the resilienceplan.com. I'm sure we'll write some of those in the show notes. Absolutely. Or find me on LinkedIn. Yeah. Yeah. They will definitely be in the show notes. And we'll make sure that your LinkedIn profile is as well. And thank you so much, MH, for spending the time with us. Thank you, Suzanne. I really appreciate you. And I'm fascinated by the work that you're doing. Thank you. Well, loved our conversation. Thank you so much. Likewise.

[00:27:20] And to all those listening, I hope that you got a lot out of this episode. And I look forward to bringing you another episode soon. Thank you for listening to All Things Authorpreneur. Head to iTunes and leave us a rating and review.