093 - Illuminating Hope: Finding Joy and Empowerment with Jennifer Michelle

[00:00:00] .

[00:00:02] Writing a book can be the foundation for sharing your important message, but it won't work

[00:00:07] unless you are consistently marketing.

[00:00:10] This podcast is for those who have written a book to share their message with the world.

[00:00:15] I love talking all things authorpreneur and having guests join me to share their brilliance

[00:00:21] with you.

[00:00:26] Hello, authorpreneurs.

[00:00:28] Suzanne Tregenza Moore and I am back with another episode and I am super excited to bring you

[00:00:35] a new author today.

[00:00:38] Jennifer Michelle is an author, professional keynote speaker, licensed clinical professional

[00:00:44] counselor, a professional business coach, and an entrepreneur.

[00:00:49] She has had articles featured in Thrive Global, Up Journey, and Authority Magazine.

[00:00:56] Jennifer has her master's degree in marriage and family counseling from Northwest Nazarene

[00:01:01] University.

[00:01:02] She opened Family Counseling Services, a community mental health agency, in Meridian,

[00:01:08] Ohio in 2008 and has since grown to open a second location in Boise, Idaho.

[00:01:14] She is also a registered clinical supervisor in Idaho and a nationally certified counselor.

[00:01:21] Jennifer has led many seminars around topics in the helping professions and published her

[00:01:26] first book called The Lightbulb Effect.

[00:01:30] You can follow Jennifer's journey with The Lightbulb Effect by visiting www.lightbulbeffect.com.

[00:01:40] And Jennifer is a proud mom of two teenagers.

[00:01:42] In her free time, she enjoys traveling, concerts, museums, and hiking.

[00:01:47] She lives with her family in Meridian, Idaho.

[00:01:50] I almost said Ohio.

[00:01:53] Welcome!

[00:01:54] Thank you so much for being here.

[00:01:55] I'm delighted to have you.

[00:01:58] So The Lightbulb Effect, tell us about the book.

[00:02:02] What are people going to find in there and who is it written for?

[00:02:05] Yeah, so I would say it's written for young adults to, you know, on up.

[00:02:12] And the book came from a time in my life where I had gone through a pretty big

[00:02:16] transition.

[00:02:17] I moved into a new house and I was screwing in a green light bulb as I was decorating

[00:02:23] for Halloween.

[00:02:24] It broke in my hand and I kind of rolled my eyes and thought, just one more thing

[00:02:28] I have to clean up.

[00:02:29] And so I actually picked up the pieces of the glass and set it on my work desk

[00:02:34] at home and left them there.

[00:02:36] And as I continued to walk by those broken pieces of glass, metaphors started

[00:02:41] coming to my head.

[00:02:43] And those metaphors ended up being chapters in my book.

[00:02:47] Yes, it's all about how we start out whole and through life's journey, we get

[00:02:52] cracks and scars and sometimes break.

[00:02:56] But there's so much strength and beauty in our pieces.

[00:02:59] So yes, absolutely.

[00:03:01] That is so true.

[00:03:03] And obviously, you know that from having worked for years with people on

[00:03:09] healing journeys.

[00:03:10] Yeah.

[00:03:11] Yes.

[00:03:11] Yes.

[00:03:12] And I worked a lot with families and I worked a lot with in the trauma world of

[00:03:17] mental health.

[00:03:19] And what can you share about your experiences in working with those

[00:03:25] communities that comes through in your book and kind of the main themes

[00:03:31] and messages that you really want people to take away?

[00:03:34] Yeah, that is such a great question.

[00:03:36] So the main theme that I would love for people to take away is that in the

[00:03:42] cracks of our brokenness is where strength receives the opportunity to grow.

[00:03:48] And essentially, that every person who's been alive long enough has gone

[00:03:53] through some kind of hurt or pain or sorrow or loss or tough transition in

[00:03:57] life.

[00:03:58] And it's really what we choose to do right after that happens that will

[00:04:02] guide our path going forward.

[00:04:05] Interesting that you say right after that happens because I think of that as

[00:04:09] like we all, as you say, we all have traumas of all different sizes, shapes,

[00:04:14] forms, etc.

[00:04:16] And I certainly have known for a while that is how you choose to respond

[00:04:22] to the challenges that's going to make up how you go forward.

[00:04:26] But interesting that you say like immediately afterward in the you're kind

[00:04:31] of saying in the immediate aftermath.

[00:04:33] So I'm going to ask you a little bit more about why the immediacy is so

[00:04:37] important.

[00:04:39] Yeah, I think that in times of really difficult transitions, I think in the

[00:04:44] aftermath of those kind of transitions, so to speak, rest, recoupment,

[00:04:50] loving on yourself, giving yourself comfort is so important.

[00:04:54] And so it's almost like we experience different chapters or themes of healing,

[00:04:59] which we kind of know to be true.

[00:05:01] We know that there's a grief process with everything.

[00:05:03] Sure.

[00:05:04] But it's really making sure that we turn to things that are going to be

[00:05:09] healthy and feed our soul as opposed to things that will dig us further down

[00:05:15] into the muck.

[00:05:16] OK.

[00:05:17] And so not that you have to take action right after a transition

[00:05:21] happens, but really just being aware of what you're choosing to do and how

[00:05:26] you're choosing to start that healing journey is important.

[00:05:29] OK.

[00:05:30] I see what you're saying now.

[00:05:32] So, for example, you know, you've had a horrible experience with a loved one.

[00:05:37] You can go home and think about that experience.

[00:05:42] You can say, what did I do that helped create this experience?

[00:05:45] Where was my role in creating it?

[00:05:48] Or you can go home and, you know, choose some numbing mechanisms.

[00:05:53] You can either drink or you can, you know, go get high or you can stare at

[00:05:58] your phone or at a TV screen or just focus on your anger, things like that.

[00:06:04] Yeah, yeah.

[00:06:05] So just really exactly what you're saying, really making sure that, you know,

[00:06:08] I feel like everybody has their unhealthy temptations and some of those

[00:06:12] unhealthy temptations are OK for us to indulge in for a small chapter.

[00:06:17] Right. Absolutely.

[00:06:18] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:19] A cup of ice cream or chocolate or whatever, whatever it is that you

[00:06:24] indulge in. Right.

[00:06:25] But we want to make sure we don't live there.

[00:06:27] But then also immediately after, we want to make sure that we are not making

[00:06:30] those really unhealthy choices.

[00:06:34] Right. So it's really not about, you know, what your vice is.

[00:06:37] It's really more about the mental response to whatever the stimulus is.

[00:06:44] Right. Like rather than saying it's all that person's fault

[00:06:48] and I play no role in it or if he wasn't such a jackass.

[00:06:54] Right. Rather than, you know, like kind of owning that

[00:06:59] these things happen, that this is a situation.

[00:07:02] If you're looking at it correctly, it doesn't matter if you come home

[00:07:05] and eat a little ice cream or drink a glass of wine or any of those things.

[00:07:10] It's that you don't use those to remove yourself from the situation.

[00:07:17] Yeah, that is exactly right.

[00:07:19] It's exactly right.

[00:07:20] And like if it's on a scale of one to ten where ten is completely healthy,

[00:07:24] choices, broccoli, metaphorically speaking, and one is completely unhealthy

[00:07:28] choices that obviously like drugs, things like that.

[00:07:31] Yeah. You know, we just want to make sure that the patterns

[00:07:34] that we're setting for ourselves really are putting us on the path to healing.

[00:07:38] But again, that's not to say that we don't lay in bed

[00:07:41] for a day after a trauma happens or we don't eat some ice cream

[00:07:46] or we don't just like veg out.

[00:07:49] But that would be like on a three on our scale of one to ten.

[00:07:52] We just don't want to go down to like the deepest of deep.

[00:07:55] Right. Or continue it or continue it.

[00:07:58] Yes, right.

[00:08:00] So I'm in the process of divorcing and, you know, obviously,

[00:08:05] like things weren't hunky dory, which is why we're getting divorced.

[00:08:09] Right. And I found for a period of time

[00:08:11] last year that many days in the week I would hit about three o'clock

[00:08:16] in the afternoon. And what I needed more than anything else

[00:08:18] in the entire world was to lie down in my bed for 30 minutes to an hour,

[00:08:24] just in order to manage the tremendous emotion

[00:08:29] and exhaustion from that emotion that I was dealing with.

[00:08:33] And I look at it and I'm like, part of me is like, how did you not manage

[00:08:38] to get through the days without a nap, Suze? Right.

[00:08:42] And yet it was literally what my body

[00:08:45] needed in order to allow myself to heal through that process and forgiving myself

[00:08:52] for that was not something I would under normal circumstances be OK with.

[00:08:57] But I was like, this is what you need right now.

[00:09:00] You got to let yourself do it.

[00:09:01] You know, and I hope it's OK that I

[00:09:03] challenge your thinking a little bit, is that is that?

[00:09:06] Please. Yes.

[00:09:07] We're here to learn.

[00:09:09] We're here to learn. Let's dive in.

[00:09:11] Right. So that is so I've been through that process.

[00:09:14] It is a terribly difficult process to go through.

[00:09:18] And so much healing can occur on that journey.

[00:09:20] So let me start with saying that the other thing I want to

[00:09:23] the thing I want to challenge you on is when you said it took you a minute

[00:09:28] to recognize it's OK to forgive yourself for that.

[00:09:32] I want to challenge you on that point in the sense that if I can possibly

[00:09:38] I'm going to try to open your mind to like almost a reframe.

[00:09:41] And I would encourage you to think about first kind of overtly speaking.

[00:09:46] There's nothing to forgive.

[00:09:47] What you did was you were aware of what your body needed and you met the needs

[00:09:54] of what your body was asking from you at that time.

[00:09:57] And at that time, that process is exhausting.

[00:10:00] So I'm not surprised that Napsa a coping skill.

[00:10:03] That's a great coping skill.

[00:10:04] But I want to encourage you that there's nothing to forgive about that.

[00:10:08] What you did was have this amazing insight.

[00:10:10] Your body was asking you for some extra rest and you gave it to your body.

[00:10:15] I gave it to it. Right.

[00:10:17] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

[00:10:20] You know, how that journey is recognizing that.

[00:10:22] And some of the things that we carry guilt for where really you're making

[00:10:26] such healthy choices. Yes, yes.

[00:10:30] Thank you for that. Yeah.

[00:10:32] Our words matter. Our words matter.

[00:10:35] Yeah. And the way we frame things matters.

[00:10:38] And I do I love the reframe.

[00:10:41] So thank you for that.

[00:10:42] I do believe 100 percent what you're saying.

[00:10:46] I tend to be less specific with my words, if that makes sense.

[00:10:52] So, yes, you're right.

[00:10:53] I don't believe that I had to forgive myself for that.

[00:10:59] And I certainly didn't in the moment.

[00:11:01] Right. As I look back on that,

[00:11:04] I am amazed that, you know, was only what, eight months ago.

[00:11:09] And I'm in such a different place.

[00:11:11] I almost can't recognize that person right now.

[00:11:15] Right. And I think, wow, like I could have been so much more productive.

[00:11:21] Right. Why do we always need that?

[00:11:23] And yet I couldn't be in that moment.

[00:11:28] I could not be.

[00:11:29] And I did for myself what I needed.

[00:11:32] And you're absolutely right.

[00:11:33] There's nothing to forgive about that.

[00:11:35] It was the right choice for me at the time.

[00:11:39] Period. Full stop.

[00:11:41] I fully agree.

[00:11:42] And just to get personal, because I guess that's what we do now.

[00:11:46] But I remember going through that same process.

[00:11:48] And for me, this is full disclosure,

[00:11:52] I got down to a really unhealthy weight because I was so stressed.

[00:11:55] I had no appetite.

[00:11:56] And someone said to me, well, like, can you at least just take a vitamin?

[00:12:01] And I was like, I literally am looking at the vitamins in my cupboard

[00:12:05] and I don't have the energy to pick up the jar and make the effort to put it

[00:12:09] in my mouth and swallow. That process is so hard.

[00:12:12] I mean, we you know those transitions, we can get so low.

[00:12:16] What you shared is so inspiring because you said it's been eight months

[00:12:21] and like you don't even recognize that person back then.

[00:12:24] And you've had so much growth and it dang, those times are hard

[00:12:28] physically, emotionally, like they're just really hard times.

[00:12:32] Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:12:35] One of the best things anyone ever said to me,

[00:12:37] and it's true whether you're going through a good time or a bad time.

[00:12:40] We like to think about it when we're going through a bad time.

[00:12:43] But you have to remember it when you're going through a good time is

[00:12:47] this too shall pass, right?

[00:12:50] This too shall pass.

[00:12:51] And with every challenge that comes in front of me,

[00:12:55] I just try to remember this too shall pass because, you know,

[00:13:00] because there are challenges in life and you just you got to learn.

[00:13:04] Well, learning to roll with them

[00:13:07] and accept the moment really helps you live in a better way

[00:13:13] than you would have if you resisted.

[00:13:16] In fact, I actually dubbed the year

[00:13:18] 2024 as the year of radical acceptance for myself.

[00:13:22] I love it. I love it.

[00:13:24] Yeah, I love that.

[00:13:25] Yeah, that is so true.

[00:13:26] You know, being a counselor, we often get to hear a lot of people's

[00:13:30] internal voices of what they have, what people don't say out in the community.

[00:13:33] And one of the things that I learned from my clients,

[00:13:36] one of the things that my clients have taught me is that in trauma,

[00:13:40] a lot of advice given is around the notion that, well, you probably went

[00:13:46] through that so that you could help someone else.

[00:13:48] And my clients have often told me that when people tell them that,

[00:13:52] my clients wonder, why do we have to go through it at all?

[00:13:56] And so I do kind of talk about this in the book that I don't think trauma happens.

[00:14:01] I don't think pain happens so that we can help someone else.

[00:14:05] I think pain happens because we're living.

[00:14:07] We're not perfect.

[00:14:09] And if we so choose, we can help someone else

[00:14:13] because of the pain that we've felt in the past.

[00:14:16] But I don't believe that we experience

[00:14:19] pain for the sole purpose of helping someone else who's been in pain going forward.

[00:14:24] Right.

[00:14:24] Going through a human experience and humans are imperfect and therefore

[00:14:29] we experience pain and we cause each other pain often, unfortunately.

[00:14:35] Usually we don't do it on purpose, right?

[00:14:38] But I love that understanding that you're expressing, because for those who

[00:14:43] believe in God and the idea that God creates everything

[00:14:49] and why would a God make me, why would God make me experience this?

[00:14:54] Right.

[00:14:54] God allows humans to make their choices, which is why we cause each other pain.

[00:15:02] Right.

[00:15:03] But the beauty of the experience of pain can be that if we are able to heal

[00:15:10] our own pain, we have the ability to go forward and help someone else to

[00:15:16] recognize theirs or heal theirs.

[00:15:19] And there is always, always positive things that come from every painful story.

[00:15:26] If we're willing to tell it,

[00:15:28] there's always the light that you can find in every story.

[00:15:32] I think it was Mr. Rogers.

[00:15:33] This is such a quote that went around a long time ago on social media.

[00:15:37] But I think it was Mr.

[00:15:38] Rogers who said when he was younger watching the news and there was so

[00:15:43] much bad happening on the news, his mother would tell him, look for

[00:15:47] the helpers because there's always helpers.

[00:15:50] I think it was him.

[00:15:51] Yes.

[00:15:52] Yeah. Right.

[00:15:53] So again, not that the darkness happens so that we can experience the light.

[00:15:57] But in darkness, there is always some light there.

[00:16:01] If you have that motivation to reach

[00:16:04] for it like that vitamin that I stink and couldn't eat, eventually I ate

[00:16:07] the vitamin, eventually I started getting healthy again.

[00:16:10] Yeah.

[00:16:11] And we get through it because we're tough, we're strong.

[00:16:14] Not that we always have to be strong.

[00:16:16] There's obviously empathy sides of us and sensitive sides of us.

[00:16:20] But dang, we can get through difficult things.

[00:16:23] We can. We can.

[00:16:24] As long as we know that this too shall pass.

[00:16:27] Right.

[00:16:28] And you mentioned another thing that if you don't mind if I jump into.

[00:16:32] Please.

[00:16:33] So I talk about intentional hurt versus unintentional hurt in the book.

[00:16:38] And so like when I broke that light bulb

[00:16:40] and little shards of glass on the floor and I thought I had cleaned it all up.

[00:16:44] But then if my kids came along and cut

[00:16:47] themselves on the shards of glass that I accidentally left behind, even though

[00:16:51] it wasn't my intention that they got hurt, they still did get hurt by my

[00:16:56] action and so even that unintentional hurt that we cause sometimes we have to

[00:17:00] take action on to help the person that we hurt heal.

[00:17:04] Yeah.

[00:17:04] So it's that intentional versus

[00:17:06] unintentional hurt is a really interesting concept to dive into.

[00:17:10] Absolutely. And that's so interesting.

[00:17:12] It's so true because there's I mean, there are so many times you can say

[00:17:17] something and you have no intention to hurt someone or even worse,

[00:17:22] text something that you have no intention of hurting someone.

[00:17:28] And yet, because of the moment that they

[00:17:31] are in the way it is received can be scarring.

[00:17:36] And, you know, it's that's why communication is so important.

[00:17:40] Right.

[00:17:42] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:43] So so interesting.

[00:17:46] Fascinating.

[00:17:48] Well, I have to tell you, your book sounds fascinating.

[00:17:51] And I absolutely love the metaphor that you have used.

[00:17:55] And I can only imagine that there are many,

[00:17:58] many little moments of that broken light bulb scattered throughout the book

[00:18:04] in ways that any reader will learn a lot.

[00:18:08] I hope so. I hope so.

[00:18:10] Yeah. So now that you've written a book,

[00:18:13] do you think you'll write another one?

[00:18:15] I do think I'll write another one.

[00:18:17] In fact, I already have so the book that I'm going to write next.

[00:18:20] I thought I was going to write first,

[00:18:21] but the light bulb book just kind of came to fruition first.

[00:18:24] So my next book, which I'll probably start working on in about a year or so,

[00:18:28] is called The Finance Diet, and it's going to be very different.

[00:18:32] It's going to be very focused on helping the reader work towards a very

[00:18:37] specific financial goal, such as like a down payment on a house or buying

[00:18:42] a car or, you know, like a larger item.

[00:18:44] So it's going to be a little bit more logistical than the light bulb effect.

[00:18:49] Interesting. OK, I love that.

[00:18:51] That's one of the questions that I ask everyone who joins me here.

[00:18:55] I'm going to throw another one at you.

[00:18:57] So you clearly have been an entrepreneur.

[00:18:59] You've started a couple of different businesses, it sounds like.

[00:19:02] Yes. As an entrepreneur,

[00:19:05] what do you think every entrepreneur has to do or have in order to be

[00:19:11] successful? That was the best question in the world.

[00:19:15] You have to have a pretty hard shell on you because especially if you are

[00:19:22] going to lead staff, if you're going to have employees.

[00:19:25] Any mistakes that I made were very public.

[00:19:28] My staff saw them and I had to respectfully and empathetically deal

[00:19:33] with those mistakes as I was learning how to lead a group.

[00:19:36] I have about 30 employees now and you have to have a really hard shell

[00:19:40] and you have to be really organized and you really have to be empathetic

[00:19:45] for the people that you want to lead.

[00:19:47] So how this plays out at my counseling agency is when we have an employee

[00:19:52] that is just rocking it and doing well and thriving,

[00:19:56] and then we start to notice them slipping a little bit as opposed to going right

[00:20:01] to something like a monitoring plan or a corrective action plan.

[00:20:04] Oftentimes, we will the leadership will pull aside that employee and have

[00:20:11] a really human conversation with them around, you know, you've been thriving.

[00:20:17] And then all of a sudden, it just kind of seems like your energy has

[00:20:21] changed. What has happened?

[00:20:23] And we have retained staff because of taking this approach,

[00:20:27] because more often than not, their life took a turn and they're experiencing

[00:20:31] something hard and then we do our best to support them in that journey.

[00:20:35] And so entrepreneurship is definitely not for the weak.

[00:20:40] Yeah, it's a really hard journey.

[00:20:43] Yeah, yeah.

[00:20:44] I love that you just said that.

[00:20:46] I think it's so important because, you know what?

[00:20:50] People are people. Right.

[00:20:52] And there are times where you get into something and you're like,

[00:20:57] I'm rocking and I'm rolling and I could do this and I'm awesome.

[00:21:02] And then, you know, something hits you in your life,

[00:21:06] in your body and something, right.

[00:21:09] And you can fall apart a little bit, a little bit more plot.

[00:21:14] Right.

[00:21:15] And taking that approach to just saying, hey, this is what I see.

[00:21:20] And that tells me that something is causing you to struggle.

[00:21:25] Like you're not doing a good job, but something is causing you to struggle.

[00:21:30] So how can I support you?

[00:21:32] Because I know what you're capable of.

[00:21:35] Yeah. I mean, then how good is that to hear someone else tell you,

[00:21:39] day you've been rocking it and we've noticed you're slipping a little bit.

[00:21:43] How can I support you?

[00:21:44] Like, what a safety hammock.

[00:21:47] Absolutely.

[00:21:48] I would encourage that is right.

[00:21:50] So yeah, owning businesses, it is not what I'm cut out for,

[00:21:54] but life led me in that way.

[00:21:56] So I'm on that journey now.

[00:21:58] Yeah. Yeah. Love it.

[00:22:00] Love it.

[00:22:01] Last question I ask everyone who comes on.

[00:22:04] What is your favorite book?

[00:22:05] Oh, my gosh, how ironic.

[00:22:07] I just wrote a list of 12 books I want my daughter to read this morning.

[00:22:12] Wow.

[00:22:14] I know that's timely.

[00:22:17] You know, I was working on a blog post.

[00:22:19] Yeah, it's kind of crazy.

[00:22:21] And I was wondering what my actual all time favorite book is out of those 12.

[00:22:25] I honestly think my all time favorite book,

[00:22:28] if I could encourage anybody to read any book ever,

[00:22:31] it would be the book by Randy Posh called The Last Lecture.

[00:22:37] Oh, yes.

[00:22:39] You know this book, right?

[00:22:40] In fact, I have it right behind me because I feel like it's a book we

[00:22:43] should read once a year. It probably takes like, I don't know, three hours to read.

[00:22:47] It's not very long, but that is probably if there was one book

[00:22:51] I would encourage people to read, that would be the book.

[00:22:55] Yeah, I have heard so many good things

[00:22:57] about that book and I have to admit that I haven't read it yet.

[00:23:00] But yeah, I'm sure it is amazing.

[00:23:02] So The Last Lecture by Randy Posh.

[00:23:05] Yes, very favorite book.

[00:23:08] Excellent.

[00:23:09] And by the way, I'm fascinated to read your blog post about the 12 books

[00:23:13] you want your daughter to read.

[00:23:15] So we're going to make sure that there's a link to that in the show notes

[00:23:18] because I bet I'm not the only one.

[00:23:21] Yes, yes, yes.

[00:23:23] Fantastic. Awesome.

[00:23:25] So I know that you are working,

[00:23:28] I believe you're working on a workbook, is it related to The Lightbulb Effect?

[00:23:33] Yes, I am working on a journal that's

[00:23:36] going to be a free PDF downloadable journal, kind of like,

[00:23:40] I don't know if you call it like a sister to The Lightbulb Effect,

[00:23:43] but just something there's a lot of exercises in the actual Lightbulb Effect

[00:23:47] book. And so I wanted to put something in place that where people could

[00:23:51] actually write out some answers and do something like that.

[00:23:55] And people can sign up for a wait list for that if they want to?

[00:23:58] Oh, my gosh. Yes.

[00:23:59] If they want to sign up for my newsletter, then they will be on that

[00:24:03] list and they can either sign up on the website, lightbulbeffect.com

[00:24:08] or my coaching website, which is jennifermichellecoaching.com.

[00:24:14] Terrific. We will make sure the link to at least one of those, but probably

[00:24:19] both, will be in our show notes for anyone who is really interested in that.

[00:24:24] Excellent. Thank you.

[00:24:26] Absolutely. And before we wrap up, Jennifer,

[00:24:29] is there anything else you want to share with the audience?

[00:24:33] I'm curious, what is your top book that you would recommend?

[00:24:38] Oh, OK. So fiction.

[00:24:43] It's got to be a John Irving book.

[00:24:45] I think it's A Widow for One Year.

[00:24:47] There's imagery in that book that comes back.

[00:24:50] I mean, probably read the book like 25 years ago, right?

[00:24:53] I read it when it came out.

[00:24:54] So whatever year it came out, that's when it was.

[00:24:57] So A Widow for One Year.

[00:24:58] Amazing. So good.

[00:25:00] And I think nonfiction, I think it's got to be Big Magic.

[00:25:06] I'm blank. I always blank on her name.

[00:25:09] It's the woman who wrote Eat, Pray, Love.

[00:25:11] Elizabeth Gilbert, Elizabeth Gilbert.

[00:25:14] I always have to struggle for her name.

[00:25:15] I don't know why, but I love Big Magic.

[00:25:19] I just there was something really powerful about that book for me.

[00:25:23] But I I devour particularly nonfiction books.

[00:25:27] Yes, particularly, you know, self-help, business, personal productivity,

[00:25:33] that kind of stuff. Love those. Love them.

[00:25:35] So, yeah, that's definitely one of my favorites.

[00:25:38] I have read Eat, Pray, Love.

[00:25:40] Is that the right order? Eat, Pray, Love.

[00:25:42] It is. It is. Eat, Pray, Love.

[00:25:43] Yes. But I will take a look at her other books.

[00:25:46] Yeah. Yeah. Awesome.

[00:25:48] Well, Jennifer, thank you so much for spending this time with me

[00:25:52] and with the audience.

[00:25:54] I think this has been a really informative and thought-provoking episode

[00:25:59] of All Things Authorpreneur, and I appreciate it.

[00:26:03] Thank you for having me.

[00:26:04] It's been a pleasure. Likewise.

[00:26:06] And everyone who is listening,

[00:26:08] I hope that you will consider The Lightbulb Effect by Jennifer Michelle.

[00:26:14] I think it's going to be a fantastic book and one that we probably all could

[00:26:19] get a lot of valuable info from.

[00:26:23] So thank you, Jennifer.

[00:26:25] Thank you to all who are listening.

[00:26:27] And I look forward to bringing you another episode of All Things Authorpreneur soon.

[00:26:33] Would you like to uncover the three biggest challenges nonfiction authors

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